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Dog Sense Podcast

Welcome to Kathy Santo’s Dog Sense! I'm your host Kathy Santo, and I'm here to teach you everything I've learned in my over three decades of training dogs, their families, competing in dog sports, writing about dogs, and being a guest on radio and TV shows. It's my hope that you will help to spread the word so we can create an awesome community of dog lovers and learners. Happy training everyone!


Season 1 || Ep. 3

Ep. 3 - My Top 10 Ways To Improve Your Dog's Training Right Now

Kathy: Welcome to Kathy Santo’s Dog Sense, “Episode Three: My Top 10 Ways To Improve Your Dog’s Training Right Now.” I’m your host Kathy Santo, and I’m here to teach you everything I’ve learned in my over three decades of training dogs, their families, competing in dog sports, writing about dogs, and being a guest on radio and TV shows. I am so glad you joined us today,and I’m also joined by one of my trainers, Sarah, who is currently training dogs in Fort Collins, Colorado. Hey, Sarah!

Sarah: Hey, everyone!

Kathy: So today I’m so excited to talk about the top 10 ways to improve your dog’s behavior right now. And I know that you implement all of these ways with your students out there in Colorado as well.

Sarah: Yes, absolutely.

Kathy: And so the first one is…I’m going to let you do it. I’ll make a little drum roll.

Sarah: Perfect! So the first one’s going to be your “Release Cue.”

Kathy: And maybe people don’t know what that is. The release cue is the recess bell. It tells your dog when they’re done. And I see, and I know you do as well, so many people like ask their dog to do something. For example, sit, and the dog sits and they’re, like, “Good dog!” And the dog just walks away like that.

Sarah: Yeah. Exactly.

Kathy: That can’t happen. You have to tell the dog when I start and then you have to tell the dog when it’s over. Alright, what’s number two?

Sarah: Another thing just from the release cue is also to make sure that you’re consistent with what words you’re using when releasing your dog, and that goes across the board with the whole family as well. You got to pick one word and that’s your release cue.

Kathy: Yeah, because it can’t be, “Okay!” And the other one’s, like, “You’re done dude.” And then the other one is, “Break!” Like, it can’t. If you have people in your life training your dog with you, you need to have a meeting, you need to post something on the fridge and it says, “These are the words we’re using.” Stop confusing your puppies and dogs by using every word in the dictionary instead of just one consistent word.

Sarah: Yup! Alright, so next up we have “Working In Different Environments.”

Kathy: Yes, because just because your dog can sit when you’re in the kitchen facing north, holding a cheese stick does not mean they’re going to sit outside. And yet, we hear this all the time, people are, like, “Ah! There was a squirrel and it was running in the yard and I told him to sit and he didn’t and he knows better and he’s just blowing me off!” No, your dog is reflection of you as a trainer and that’s not to make you feel guilty or start heavily drinking. It’s just to explain to you that your dog only knows what you’ve taught them.

Sarah: Right.

Kathy: So if you were teaching this in a quiet environment, there’s no transfer initially. Dogs don’t generalize like you want them to, or like people do. You can’t sit them down on a rock and say, “Dude, look. Whenever I say sit, no matter what else is going on, you have to do it right.” I mean, like, I wish I could. We’re working on that. We’re working on that.

Sarah: You’re working on an app for that right?

Kathy: I am! There’s going to be an app for that, but for right now, you got to dig in and do old fashion work. You’ve got to put the dog in multiple situations and teach them that the sit in the kitchen means the same thing as I sit in the yard with the squirrel and beyond.

Sarah: Exactly. So one way to get that is to then, so the next thing we have, is leverage what they want into training.

Kathy: Ooh, you do that one. This reminds me of episode two when we talked about “No Bowl Month”. Remember that?

Sarah: Yes. Okay.

Kathy: I think we just lost…

Sarah: I was distracted by one of my dogs.

Kathy: Oh, no!

Sarah: Yeah! So all the time. What? I mean all the time I used my dog’s food, their breakfast or dinner or, if you have a cup of their lunch as well, to train them. Use that and use it in your training to help build your relationship as well, which we talked about in that episode.

Kathy: Right. Then when they see you as the person who owns everything and they have a working relationship with you, like, “Hey, what if I do this?” And you’re, like, “Hey, and then I’ll give you this.” And, and people get inky about this Sarah and you know, from your students, they’re, like, “I don’t want to have to train with food forever!”

Sarah: Exactly.

Kathy: And you won’t, I promise.

Sarah: We hear it all the time.

Kathy: Yeah, exactly. But for the time being in the beginning or when you’re trying to get past an issue, this is what you need to do.

Sarah: Exactly. We can fade out the food later on, at the later date. But right now you need you to have to be able to pay them.

Kathy: Exactly. Alright. Now number four, “Be Consistent With Commands,” which we talked about and “Expectations.” So I feel that people, they watered down the training because the situation is chaotic. So, for example, if somebody comes in your house, your dog knows how to sit and you say sit and instead of saying they lay down and you’re just like, oh, it’s fine. Here’s a cookie. You did something right.

Sarah: Yup.

Kathy: Yeah. We need to make sure that it means the same thing. And your criteria or expectation is the same every single time.

Sarah: Yup. And also, for another big one that we see a lot is for the place command. The place command means all four paws are on whatever you pointed to. Whether it’s a place bed, a towel, a rock when you’re out hiking, a bench at the park place means all four paws stay on your place bed that if one part comes off that’s not place. And a lot of times that’s the one that I see a lot that gets watered down.

Kathy: Right! People are like, “Oh, they still have three on.” Yeah, but tomorrow to be two.

Sarah: Right.

Kathy: And then it will be just one. Then they’ll just be near it and you’re, like, “I don’t know…they used to know this now that just blow me off.”

Sarah: Exactly. So yeah, if you yeah, if the expectations aren’t clear the entire time the dog was going to get confused and at that point it’s not their fault. It’s the, it’s the trainer or the handler/owner’s fault.

Kathy: If we had a nest cam on people all the time, we’d cry about, but we would be able to point out these situations and explain to them better how to fix it. Alright, next. Ooh, I love this one! Plan and set the stage for your training session. So many people get inspired to train and they’re, like, “Yes, I’m going to train the dog.” And they get the leash and the dog and the food and they’re, like, “Wait, okay, where’s my other leash? Okay, wait, oh, I need a toy. Oh, what am I going to do today?” And they waste, like, 20-30 minutes trying to figure out what they’re gonna do. And now the dog is tired, and bored, and it just falls apart. So for me, I have a plan. And the reason I have a plan is because I write down every single thing that I do in training sessions. And no, it doesn’t take me a long time. Brevity is a gift. It takes me, like, a minute to write down, “sit: terrible, work on it more. Down: Awesome. Next step is ready.” So it’s like my little shorthand. So I pull out my notebook before my dog is with me. He’s crated, he’s gated, he’s somewhere, but not with me. I say, “Ooh, today I’m going to work on doorway protocol and I’m going to do it in 10 minutes when I know the kid across the street walks his annoying dog on the front line, uh, and my dog’s thinks that’s really interesting.” So it’s my distraction. And then I get my food, I get my dog, I make sure that the dog is really outside across the street. And then I start my session, and I also time it. I time sessions because I would train for hours.

Sarah: Exactly.

Kathy: I had cut myself off, but I like my students to set a timer, because I want them to train the five minutes or the 10 minutes that we decided to do, so that they don’t cheat and cut corners.

Sarah: Right. And your training session doesn’t need to be an hour long.

Kathy: No. I mean, I wish it was.

Sarah: We would love to train for hours on end. Then it comes to a point where they’re not learning anymore.

Kathy: Right. And you just sort of digging away at the progress you made. But that’s why we have multiple dogs, Sarah, because we love to train and so we just go from one dog to the next dog. So we’re dog trainers. Oh, wait! And also setting the stage. I like to train in the bathroom with young puppies and dogs that are really distracted. Um, I have many videos of me sitting in a bathroom where the toilet papers off the role, the shower curtain is pulled, the mats off the floor and the window shade is pulled down. And by default, I am the most interesting thing in that room and I get a lot more engagement that way. And that’s how I spent a lot of the early days with all of my new dogs and some clients dogs to just building that relationship.

Sarah: Yeah. That can be for puppies, or dogs, who are brand new to you, or do you, or if you’re working on engagement and attention. That’s a great, that’s a great stage to do it in.

Kathy: Because you set them up for success

Sarah: Yeah.

Kathy: And you set yourself up to be the best thing ever. Ooh, I’m looking at number six, Sarah, and it’s about “How Long Should The Training Sessions Be?” And we just talked about that.


Kathy: Five minutes. We love it.

Sarah: Yeah, so up next we have, so also, and this queues into exactly what we were just talking about, is “Know Your Dog.”

Kathy: Correct. Train the dog you have! Not the dog you wish you had, not the dog you used to have. Do you have a dog with a lot of endurance? A lot of engagement? Is he bored? Could he care less about, you know, the food that you have? I mean, you’ve got to stack the deck in your favor and you come into this with a hungry, lonely, and bored dog or puppy, and understand the needs of that dog to maximize every single second that you have with them. I also want to point out, though, that those sessions, if we say a 10 minute session, probably five of those minutes are are playing, you know it’s like I do a of things, three or four reps and then “Woo!” tug toy and then we do a few more reps or something else and then I run away and say their name. So this is not just, like, sitting in math class, or whatever class you didn’t like, where the teacher is just sort of drilling you. This is fun stuff, because in addition to learning commands, our dogs are learning to build the relationship with u. And as I always say, “The leash is not the relationship. The cookie is not the relationship.” What’s going to save you when the dog gets out the house, or the yard, and he’s booking for the road. The only thing that saves you in that moment isn’t the chicken mcnugget that you give him for training, it is how he feels about your relationship and what you have taught him is acceptable and where your criteria is for that come command. That’s it. That’s all you have. Just you.

Sarah: Yup.

Kathy: All right. So next “Control the Environment.” That’s kind of our bathroom tip, right?

Sarah: Yeah, it really is. Yeah.

Kathy: Like, I’m not going to go train my dog in the middle of the living room when I have guests over or kids, you know, playing or outside in the yard when my neighbor’s lawn people are there, I’m just not going to do it. I’m going to make sure that whatever level my dog is, he gets the environment he needs to succeed and grow. Not just stay at the level he’s at, but go into the next level and advance.

Sarah: Yup.

Kathy: Alright, next we have “Training The People”. Oh, that takes longer

Sarah: When you get questions all the time. Like, you know, “Is this class, can we have this class with our kids, too?” Or, “Can our husbands come to this class?”

Kathy: Yeah. And we say that’s a much longer class. Much, much longer. It’s funny though, whenever I meet a new client and they bring their kids, I can always tell how well a dog training is going to go after spending an hour with them. Uh, yeah. So, yeah, you had to train the people in your life too. It’s, if you’re the only one training the dog and you’re being consistent, yes, the dog will listen to you, but you could have saboteurs intentionally or accidentally retraining all the good stuff you’re doing. So make sure everybody’s on the same page. I will accept the answer of, “Well, I’m just not going to ask the dog to do anything from the people who live with you.” And that’s fine by me. They don’t want to participate. That’s fine, but they can’t use any of your commands that your training.

Sarah: Yeah. And also, I thought about what the, the game you used to play with your kids when they were little in the dog training.

Kathy: Yes. When they get there little baggies of food.

Sarah: Yes.

Kathy: Yeah. So when my kids were little, they come home from school and each of them got a little baggie and I called them “The Keys.” So if you had a key, meaning a piece of cookie, uh, dog cookie that is, you are allowed to say the dog’s name. And so when they said the dog’s name and the dog paid attention to them, they would throw them a cookie. And if they ran out of keys, they could just say, “puppy puppy.” And what that did was it maintained the dog’s intention or understanding of their name being something amazing that they got a lot of rewards for. And my kids were participating in the training and not undoing it. I train kids, too. Alright.

Sarah: I always use that trick. I love it. Okay, so the final thing we have is “Understanding Body Language.”

Kathy: Yes, because it’s the native language of your dog. Imagine if you went to a different country and you didn’t understand one little thing that everybody was saying. Well the problem is there’s no communication now, right? So people are talking to dogs and they’re, like, “Stop it. What are you doing? Blah, blah, blah.”, and the dogs are, like, “I don’t get your language.” And they’re telling you things like, “stay away,” or, “I’m afraid,” or “I’m unsure.” And you don’t know their language either, so you’re sort of blowing it, blowing by it and offending them and they’re offending you, and it’s just a hot mess. So what we want you to do is have a better understanding of what your dog is trying to tell you with their body, which is the native language of dogs. To do this, I created, well at the school, if you were in Jersey and you were in our classes, you would be able to come to a free body language seminar every single month. We do live dog demos, we do videos, we freeze videos, and we say, “Look at that, look at this. What do you think is going to happen next?” And most people are surprised when we freeze the video and they’d say what’s going to happen next when we play the video, and something totally opposite happened. And so we feel that this education prevents fights and bites and also make your relationship stronger because who doesn’t want to hang out with somebody who understands them? Right?

Sarah: Exactly. So huge. It’s such like a big point that we have to get across to students is that they have to understand what their dog is telling them. Their dogs don’t speak English, but they speak with their bodies. Like, they were always communicating with us. It’s whether or not we understand them.

Kathy: Yeah. People are saying, people say to me, “Oh my dog’s not doing anything,” and I’m like, “Oh, he is!”

Sarah: They are misinterpreting what they’re saying. So you know that, they think it’s funny when the dog is growling over them over a cookie on the ground or something and we’re like, “Listen, this is going to progress to so much more than that.” They’re, they’re misinterpreting it too.

Kathy: It’s like when people send us the Christmas cards and it’s the kids and the dogs, or them and the dog and they’re hugging or we just like, “Oh my God!” And so we wind up using them as instruction, like, “See this dog? Having a bad time, kids having a good time. Dog is having a bad time.”

Sarah: Yeah

Kathy: But to help you guys understand that what I’ve done is, I’ve taken that body language seminar that I give live and I’d made a Webinar. Now what I want to say, Sarah, and you know what I’m going to say, when I recorded this Webinar, I just did it for my students who know me and my level of sarcasm and snark…so…surprise! We’re going to give it to you guys, but I want you to keep that in mind. I’m speaking to people who, we have a very familiar relationship with, so a little sassy just, you know, roll in it.

Sarah: Everyone needs to watch this, nevermind, your awesome commentary. It’s just, it’s so, it’s so beneficial for everyone to be, to be learning this and then sharing it with your, if you have dogs in your family, share to every single family member, share to your neighbor, share it to everyone you know, so that they are also able to understand what, what they’re seeing when they’re looking at a dog.

Kathy: Absolutely. It’s, it’s really invaluable for everybody and we want everybody to learn from it, so we’re making it available. All right, Sarah. Well, this I think was one of my favorite podcasts. I think this was, this is going to help a lot of people pretty quickly. And…

Sarah: We covered so much stuff!

Kathy: We did! And even if you just take one or two of these things and make that change to your life with your dog, uh, you’re going to see a huge improvement. Alright, so that’s it for this episode of Kathy Santo’s Dog Sense. Thank you, Sarah, for hanging out with me again. I’m reminding you guys to check out my “Canine Body Language Webinar,” and the link to that will be posted along with the podcast. Thank you so much for spending time with us, and I hope you’ll join us again soon. If you do have any comments or show ideas, we’d love to hear them. So reach out to us through our website at, And as always, if you like what you hear, jump on over to whatever subscription service you use to download this podcast from and like rate, subscribe, tell a friend, and share this episode somewhere to help spread the word so we can continue to create an awesome community of dog lovers and learners. Happy training everyone!

Season 1 || Ep. 2

Ep. 2 - Ditch The Bowl Challenge

Kathy: Welcome to Kathy Santo’s Dog Sense “Episode Two: Ditch The Bowl Challenge.” I’m your host Kathy Santo and I’m here to teach you everything I’ve learned in my over three decades of training dogs, their families, competing in dog sports, writing about dogs, and being a guest on radio and TV shows. I’m so glad you joined us today and I’m also so glad that I’m here with one of my favorite people, my trainer, Sarah, who used to work up with us and our dog training facility in New Jersey, but now is out in Fort Collins, Colorado doing a smaller, at the moment, version of the school we have up here and we have big plans for you, Sarah. I’m really excited about putting a facility down there sometime soon.

Sarah: Yes, absolutely. Hey everyone! Alright, so today’s episode we are going to address one of our absolute favorite things to do with our students. We do it throughout the year, and it’s our Monthly Bowl Free Challenge.

Kathy: Which is different than a Free Bowl Challenge, which is what one of my students in Puppy Class, she’s like, “Wait, what? We get, you’re giving us a free bowl?”

Sarah: Yeah.

Kathy: I’m like, “No, no, no…let me say it again. It’s a Bowl Free Challenge.” But they still didn’t know what the hell that means.

Sarah: No, they, and it’s something that, that they don’t even, it doesn’t even cross their mind to do this. A lot of the times, like, when we tell students, like, use your dog’s food to train, that’s a perfect opportunity, to, for your dog to be learning how to earn everything in their lives and they don’t even think about it. They think that they have to use, like, hot dogs or cheese to train their dogs anything.

Kathy: Right! So here’s what I tell them. Number one, when we train new dogs, puppies, a lot of the times we’re using food and it’s because there’s not a relationship yet with the owner and the dog. And two, food, to dogs, is currency. It’s like paychecks. Although, occasionally, I get somebody who says, “Why can’t I just train with praise?” And I’m like, “Well you can, but it’s not as interesting to the dogs, because they hear you talking all the time. You probably praised them for just breathing all the time,” and, “How would you like it if your workplace decided, ‘you know what we’re doing with paychecks, we’re just going to give you lots of compliments’? ”

Sarah: We’re going to hug you every time you do a great job.

Kathy: Right!

Sarah: Kisses on the cheek for exceptional work.

Kathy: Exactly. No, that’s why I work for myself.

Sarah: I would be, I would quit. I’d be out of there in three seconds.

Kathy: That’s right! And, you know what, there’s a lot of dogs who don’t like that physical touching stuff!

Sarah: Exactly!

Kathy: So, yeah, way to turn your dog off. Alright, so, basically what I explained to my students is, your dog and you have a list of things you want to teach them. Manners, commands, just basic stuff, basic dog husbandry, that you need to have them understand so that you can live a happy life together, which is the reason you got your dog in the first place.

Sarah: Yup.

Kathy: And if you have all these things that you need to teach and every day you give them a free bowl twice a day, or three of you have a puppy, of exactly what they want for doing nothing, you are throwing away the biggest training tool that you have, and that is, leveraging their meal for training. I mean, and when you say to people, they’re like, “Oh yeah, you’re right!” The thing of it is it improves your relationship because you have something the dog wants. The dog is like, “Hey, I…I really want that!” And you’re like, “Hey, that’s awesome. Let’s do something together!” The dog is like, “Absolutely, I will totally engage with you!” Versus what you get most of the day if you’re not training with us and you don’t have the system in place, which is you walk by your dog, you’re like, “Hey, you want to train?” Dogs chewing a bone, he’s like, “Nope, I’m good. Full from breakfast.” I mean that sucks so much.

Sarah: And think about the dogs. Like, most of the time if you ask an owner like, “When is your dog like the happiest, when was he happiest?” Most of the time they’re going to say, “When I’m making his food.”

Kathy: Right! They get so excited! Imagine if your dog was that into you, the way they are into their bowl. Like…

Sarah: Exactly!

Kathy: Like, you could teach him to do anything. You could teach them to drive your car.

Sarah: We’re getting there.

Kathy: But, right now, they’re excited to see the bowl and not you, but we’re going to flip that. So let’s go over a few things that people don’t, the reason they resist. So one of the reasons they resist is because they say, “This is so much food! Like, my puppy or my dog gets two cups of food a day!” Are you kidding me? I can get rid of two cups of food in 15 minutes. Then I hear, “Oh, I don’t have extra time to train my dog!”

Sarah: Yeah.

Kathy: Okay, dude. Feeding your dog probably takes you five minutes top to bottom, but training will take you 10 or 15, so, get up a little earlier, like, stay off of freaking Facebook.

Sarah: Exactly! Yeah!

Kathy: Like, just, devote the time in the beginning of this training journey and you get what you want. I promise you’ll have all that Facebook time later. You’ll have time to watch whenever that you watch on Netflix, you will. But this is so critical. When you start out training, whether it’s an eight week old puppy or an eight year old dog, you still got to put in this foundation stuff, and this is really important. I also hear, that, “I feed raw.” So they were like, “I feed raw food. I’m not touching that.”

Sarah: If you didn’t touch on this one, I was gonna say the same thing.

Kathy: Exactly. Alright, so get a glove. Get a glove or a spoon!

Sarah: I use a spoon. My dogs eat raw every single meal we train, and I use a spoon.

Kathy: Yeah. And, so easy. If you’re really fussy and picky, you can even get, um, I don’t know how to explain it. They’re like tubes. Just go on Amazon, they have all this crap, and you can put stuff in the tube. The, the bottom of it is open. It’s like a toothpaste tube.

Sarah: Yup.

Kathy: Put it in, roll it down. There’s a little clip you put on it, then you can squeeze it out like toothpaste. So if you just don’t want to touch that stuff, I get it. Not really, but I say I do, and put it into like that. Then you don’t have to have actual contact with the raw. My son, when he feeds his dog, he puts on gloves and gets all the stuff he needs into the bowl. So, you could get gloves, too. Whatever you want to do, just make it happen. Oh, another reason to feed with the bowl, you don’t want this 700 pound dog!

Sarah: Yeah.

Kathy: So if you’re doing training with food, at some point your dog is bigger than he should be. We like to call it fluffy. The vet’s going to hate it, and your dog isn’t going to thrive because of it. So I want you to make sure that the food is a big part of it. Uh, what other objections? Oh, “My dog doesn’t like his food.” Okay.

Sarah: Ugh.

Kathy: Alright. So if he didn’t like his food, and it’s a really healthy food. It’s like the kids, you know, my kids didn’t want to eat broccoli, they’d rather have cookies. Yeah, but at some point you gotta be like, “You know, I know what I’m doing. You can’t have the cookies until you eat the Broccoli.”

Sarah: Exactly.

Kathy: So in that case, you can dress up the food. So you can get a hunk of, like, the rind of parm and you could get a piece of bacon, put it in a Ziploc bag with the kibble, shake it like Shake’n’Bake throw it in the fridge when you’re going to have a training session the next day, your meal training session, take it out and use it. Now it’s scented kibble.

Sarah: Yup.

Kathy: But, but I also think that some dogs don’t like their food because they get so much other crap during the day. Like, they get snacks and all this stuff and so they don’t have a food drive, then, you know, it’s kind of lost on them. Alright! So I want you to give some examples, because I know your students ask you this too, of what things you can train with your dog during the Bowl Free Month. Like, how to get rid of this food. And at the end of the day have a full puppy, and a dog, or a puppy who’s learned more than they knew before the meal.


Sarah: Okay. I could go into this topic, we can look at your podcast for three hours on this topic. Giving everyone examples of what they could do with their food. But some of my top ones, alright, so for puppies, your impulse control games. Work them in the kitchen or the dining room where you, the situation, you were most likely going to need it. So in the dining room, you know your kids drop a plate, you’re in the kitchen, something falls over, work your impulse control games in those environments. Next one, name recognition games, especially with a puppy, they need to learn their name and they need to know how awesome it is. Every time they hear their name, they get food.

Kathy: Wait, stop.

Sarah: Yup.

Kathy: Do you, some people think that their dog knows their name or their puppy knows her name and they don’t?

Sarah: Oh yeah. So I test it in class and I, you know the dog, the dog’s distracted. They’re looking at other puppies in class and you say the dog’s name and he completely ignores you?

Kathy: Right? And they, you know what, sometimes they you hear, you know this, they say, “Oh, but he’s distracted.” I’m like, “Hello?”

Sarah: Yeah.

Kathy: He needs their attention. When they’re looking a squirrel and booking it across the road, do you need their attention when they’re looking at the squirrel? So, yes, something you need to do. Tons of name recognition games.

Sarah: You could use your entire bowl of food, and literally it’s just your dog’s looking away from you. They’re distracted by air molecules. Maybe it’s a squirrel outside the window or something, and you will, you say their name you feed him a handful, whether it’s raw or cable, whatever it is.

Kathy: I just thought about something. This the criteria of when we say you should train your puppy or dog, which is when they’re hungry, lonely and bored.

Sarah: Exactly.

Kathy: So they’ve been sleeping all night, they’ve been in their crate or they’re confined and, so they’re bored, and they’re hungry, and they’re lonely. And so the same thing at dinner time. And if you want, before you do your dinner meal or your lunchtime meal, I would put them somewhere away from you for at least a half an hour. So that when you showed up, your dog is bored, and he’s like, “Oh my God, so good to see you. Let’s do something fun!” And you’re like, “Hey, how about food?” And the dog is really into it. Alright, what else?

Sarah: So touching on what you just said, also, so let’s say if you were someone who may be living in an apartment or you don’t have a fenced in yard and you take your dog for walks in the morning for their potty. Take their kibble, put it in a little baggie with you, put it in your pocket and train on your walk. That’s another huge one that you can use. And, also, for people who say they don’t have time to train. What, if you have to walk your dog, either way, they need to go potty, take the food with you. That’s another huge one that people can do.

Kathy: I find it surprising how many people don’t think to take the dogs food with them.

Sarah: I know they don’t. And a lot of times I hear, you know, it’s, it’s frustrating for them to bring food with them, blah, blah blah. But it’s like, that’s your paycheck. That’s how you’re going to teach your dog all of these things. And if you want your dog to learn heel position, you’re taking them on walks either way. Why not be training?

Kathy: t’s much more frustrating to get dragged down the street…

Sarah: Right!

Kathy: By your dog tugging and lunging. And, wait, oh, we have to touch on this even though it’s kind of not about this, but look. I go crazy when people are handing food to other people and saying, “Well, you feed my dog.” Why the hell are…

Sarah: That’s a big one!

Kathy: …you teaching your puppy, or dog, that all those people out there have food, and that they’re going to give it to him? Because what you’re creating is a dog who wants everything but you. Now people are going to go, “Oh, well you should socialize!” yeah, you know what’s socializing is? Somebody interacts with my puppy and I feed them, or my dog, and I feed them. I’m not letting them think that the world is full of vending machines, because you get zero engagement that way. Dog goes on the walk specifically to seek out food that other people have, and what they really should be doing is trying to earn the food that you brought. That’s the way it works. It doesn’t, and, and people are like, “Oh the whole life of the dog? Fourteen years?” No! Maybe six, nine, 12 months till you’re done with this. But you got to put it in and you don’t forget. And if you did forget, you trudge back up the driveway, you go in and you grab your food. It has to happen.

Sarah: Yup.

Kathy: Alright, what else?

Sarah: Alright, let’s see. Okay, so for puppies, body handling games. Huge, huge, huge thing to do with puppies, and it’s so easy. You have your bowl of food, you pick up a paw, you feed some kibble. Next one, next paw, the belly, the tail, the ears, the neck, the collar grab game. That’s another huge one we teach students! It’s to make sure that they always associate you touching or reaching for their collar with that positive and appetitive response, so they’re not shying away from it. Um, and other thing, so I mean all of your, your basic puppy command, your sit, down stays, you could do the beginning of place. People who say that they want to get rid of like a lot of food quickly, place. Greatest thing ever! You can throw a whole, you can have half a bowl of food on there for the dog getting onto their place command.

Kathy: Exactly. Yeah.

Sarah: Um, and then another, my last one for puppies is going to be puppy fitness. So our whole entire team is certified canine athlete specialists, so we’re super, super into making sure that from the beginning of the dog’s life until the end that they’re getting the physical exercise in the fitness that they need to live a long and healthy life. So we start with puppies and we have to teach them to be at the beginning of it. So paws up and pivoting or two of my favorite things to teach puppies.

Kathy: And you know we talked about this in the barking episode, which was episode one, but the physical combined with the brain work creates a nice tired dog. So that people who don’t buy into the idea of probably fitness or even begin a dog fitness, I’m like, “Look dude, if you do this dog will be better behaved and tired!” And they’re, like, “Ahh, sold!”

Sarah: Yeah, exactly. We’ll give them, the, yeah, we’ll sell them the tired card.

Kathy: Yup. Yup. All right. Now for the beginner dogs, we have doorway protocol, which is just the way that we teach our dogs to go through the door, which is they have to sit before we open it. They have to go through when we release them, and then they have to sit at the other side of it. And so there’s a really great game we do where we straddle the doorway and we show them a cookie and we released him through the door. “Okay. Sit!” and we’d get them back in. “Okay. Sit!” So basically they’re ping ponging back and forth. Yes! There’s the leash on the dog. Yes! I’m standing on it because I don’t feel like chasing an untrained dog down the street.

Sarah: Right.

Kathy: That is an awesome way to get rid of food. Recalls in the yard or in a field. Teaching them to look at you, sit down, stay place, more advanced stuff like that. Again, body handling games and beginner fitness, just like you were talking about with the pivoting. Um, the listening for intermediate/advanced, dogs is really a great way to test it. Doing set up versus side, sit versus down, place versus paws up. Uh, long waits, really long sit stays. When we say, wait, we mean sit  stay, and putting them in place while you make your dinner or you just do something fun. Uh, and they have to stay there and be calm and the reward for that is you’re feeding them. And I also thought the, the example is making dinner, but then I’m like, oh, when you’re on the computer too.

Sarah: Yeah. Like you were talking about you want to be able to sit and Netflix, you know, sit at your laptop watching Netflix, your dog has to, it can’t be constantly bothering you because they weren’t, you know, they weren’t truly tired.

Kathy: Exactly. Alright. Well I think if you are not motivated to try The Ditch The Bowl Challenge, you need to listen to this again.

Sarah: Exactly. You could do so much with it and it’s really, it’s building your relationship with your dog. That’s one of the most important parts to get out of this.

Kathy: Yeah. The leash guys, the leash and the cookie isn’t the relationship.

Sarah: Yup.

Kathy: It’s you and the dog and the way that you feel about each other. The way your dog looks at you, the way he views you as the person who owns all the fun stuff and shares it with him when he behaves in a certain way that you like. So we hope that you’re going to try this and I’d love to hear your feedback. So that’s it for this episode of Kathy Santo’s Dog Sense. When you try this at home with your dogs do tag us with hashtag: Ditch The Bowl Challenge. (#ditchthebowlchallenge) Thank you so much for spending time with us. I hope you’ll join us again soon. And if you have comments or show ideas do you can reach us through our website at As always, if you like what you heard jump over to whatever subscription service you downloaded this from and like rate, subscribe, tell a friend, and share these episodes somewhere to help spread the word so we continue to create an awesome community of dog lovers and learners. Happy training everyone!

Season 1 || Ep. 1

Ep. 1 - Barking - The Whys, The Woes, And How To Finally Ditch The Earplugs

Kathy: Welcome to Kathy Santo’s Dog Sense: “Episode One: Barking; The Whys, The Woes, And How To Finally Ditch The Earplugs.” I’m your host Kathy Santo, and I’m here to teach you everything I’ve learned in my over three decades of training dogs, their families, competing in dog sports, writing about dogs, and being a guest on radio and TV shows. I’m so glad you joined us today and I’m also so glad that one of my favorite people is here, too. And today my guest is Sarah. Now Sarah is one of my trainers and she started when she was with our facility in New Jersey and she has since moved, about a year ago, to Colorado and she’s opening a branch of what we do up here with the dog training and the daycare out in Fort Collins, Colorado. Hey, Sarah!

Sarah: Hey everyone!

Kathy: So is it about a year that you’ve been gone?

Sarah: Yeah, it’ll be a year midway through January.

Kathy: It feels like dog years.

Sarah: Exactly!

Kathy: You couldn’t have moved to like freaking Connecticut where you could have just come and visit. You had to go all the way across the country.

Sarah: Hey, we got a lot of dogs out here that need training as well!

Kathy: This is true and you know, this is a funny story. She moved to Colorado and, like, three weeks later one of my students from here said, “Oh, I’m moving.” I said, “I’m so sad. We’re going to miss you. Where are you moving?” She’s like, “Fort Collins, Colorado.” I’m like, “No way!” So she got out there, right? Lilo and then she started training with you. So we got to get more of those happening.

Sarah: Exactly, yes.

Kathy: Alright, so what are we talking about today?

Sarah: Alright, so today’s episode, we’re going to address a topic we get asked about every single day, whether it’s in classes or private lessons at the school, or when we also got these questions from the online dog training program, as well as comments and messages on our social media pages.

Kathy: I think it’s probably one of the biggest. I’d say it’s probably one of the top three questions we get asked about and, like I said in the Intro, I’ve been training dogs for over 30 years and I hear this every day. Now, we teach seven days a week at our school, so we’re pretty guaranteed this topic is going to come up, but there is such mystery and frustration surrounding the topic that, I thought that this would be a really good one to start off with to help people fix their barking issues, or not let them happen in the first place. So, if you’re listening to this and you’re like, “Ah, my dog doesn’t bark,” keep listening because you may one day do the wrong thing and then you have a barker on your hands, which you definitely don’t want to have. Right?

Sarah: Exactly.

Kathy: So before we have to tell you the solution, we need you to understand why the dog is barking and that’s pretty much how we attack all the training. People are like, “Oh my dog runs away!” And were like, “Well, here’s why it’s happening, and then here’s the solution,” because I believe if you don’t understand the why, you can’t effectively use the solutions we’re telling you. So here’s some insight into what might be the reason your dog is barking. So, first, there’s no single reason they bark and it can change day to day, so there’s really no quick fix guaranteed cookie cutter method to stop barking. You kind of feel your way through it, and it’s frustrating to live with a dog who bugs you or even next door to, or if you’re an apartment, over or under a dog that barks, because once the dog is an Olympic barker it gets much, much harder to fix. And, so, if we know the motivation behind it, then we can better address the problem with a solution. So, we know that obviously dogs bark, a dog barks because it works and they’re scaring somebody away, their self soothing and they’re getting attention or they’re releasing frustration, but the most typical reasons for that are, you know what, Sarah, I’m going to let you do a couple. Go for it. What would be number one?

 Sarah: Right. So some of the common reasons for barking is definitely “Boredom.” So it’s a way that they’re going to self soothe, it sounds repetitive, or if the dog is under stimulated.

Kathy: Exactly. It’s like, I know people like this. Oh, I just had an epiphany! Have you met people who just like the sound of their voice, and they just keep talking? Yeah.

Sarah: Yes.

Kathy: So, yeah, hopefully they don’t have a dog like that, or maybe, hopefully, they do have a dog like that so they know what it feels like to others but, okay, carry on. What’s number two?

Sarah: Alright, so the next one, It’s gotta be that the dog is either attention or it’s demand barking. So, what that means is that. So the dog, it’s either, they want something from you or they’re hoping that the barking, and they’re hoping that the bark and will get it from you.

Kathy: And you know what? A lot of people go, “Oh no, I don’t do that. My dog barks at me to throw the ball and I won’t throw the ball. And I tell him, ‘Stop it, I’m not throwing that ball’ ” And I’m, like, “That’s it. There it is right there. There’s the interaction!”

Sarah: Exactly.

Kathy: You think they’re only asking for positive interaction, but you’re annoyed interaction is attention anyway, which is kind of just like kids, right? They don’t care if they’re getting negative attention or positive attention. Sometimes, they just want you to interact with them and so that’s definitely, what’s happening with that, number two, when people are fussing at their dogs. It’s still attention.

Sarah: Right! They think that they’re, they think that they’re helping to deter the barking. But, in reality it’s still perpetuating it.

Kathy: Exactly.

Sarah: Alright. So next one is going to be “Excitement.” So you’re prepping their meals, you come from home from work, you grab your car keys, you pick up their leash, any of those things, and the dogs are crazy barking, exciting. And a lot of people unfortunately they take it as, “Oh my dog is so excited to see me,” you know, they’re just excited, whatever. But it’s still, that’s going to then translate to other situations.

Kathy: Exactly. And the thing about that is the dog gets what they want because most of the time the dogs barking and the people are making their dinner or their breakfast, the dog’s meal, and they do it faster because they want the dog to shut up. And, so, the dog goes, “Hey, when I back harder and louder and faster, she makes my food faster. So that’s awesome!” Or, if you grab your car keys and the dog’s jumping around like a kangaroo barking because he knows you’re going to take him somewhere, and you do, the dog goes, “This barking stuff. It really works!” Right?

Sarah: Exactly.

Kathy: Number four.

Sarah: Alright, so this one, it’s got to be, this might be my second top one that we hear most often. So an “Alarm Bark.” So, something that startles them. So the doorbell rings, the mailman comes up the front, you know, they hear the car, the mail truck pull up. That kind of thing.

Kathy: Right. And so, there’s a lot we can do that with that one and we’re gonna talk about later. But my big thing with that is I don’t want, when I go somewhere, I don’t like to leave my dogs in a dead quiet house or if you’re an apartment, I like to have white noise to sort of buffer this stuff because, imagine if you were in a very quiet house and all of a sudden you heard a noise and, see the other thing is I hear the UPS truck and I’m, like, “Yes, Amazon! It’s here!” The dogs, they don’t know you ordered something. They’re, like, “Oh my God, intruders!” And some dogs, which you may or may not have one of, are more easily startled or pushed into a reaction from noise than others. I mean, my puppy he hears  the doorbell, he’s like, “Huh?” But other dogs hear it and there, boom, on alert, barking, acting.

Sarah: Exactly.

Kathy: Whatever they act like and, and by the way, if you have multiple dogs and you bring one into the house who is a barker, you can actually change, teach all of them to bark. It will pass on. It’s like the flu. They will all catch it. So you want to stop that ASAP. Oh, number five. That’s my favorite one. Go ahead you can say it.

Sarah: I was just going to say that too!. Every time we go down this list, I’m like, oh wait, no THAT one’s my favorite.. “Window TVs” at the front of your house where the dog has easy access to, whether it’s on the back of the couch or they could just put their front paws up on it and look out of it, but that that huge window at the front of the house.

Kathy: Wait, people are hearing this and going, “What the hell is a window TV?” Some people want to order one now. Some people are like, “I don’t get it.” Okay.

Sarah: It’s TV for your dog!

Kathy: Yes. We refer to open windows, meaning, not open-wide open, like, ones without curtains. Anything your dog can see out of. We call that a window TV, and the dog gets to watch the best TV show on earth, which is your neighborhood show and then they’ll find things to bark at and we’re going to explain why that’s a problem, but it’s a pretty easy fix.

Sarah: Yeah, and then the other one, which can relate to all of these is that the reason that they bark is “Because It Works.” Whatever they’re barking, whatever the reason is for barking, it works.

Kathy: Exactly. And it, we know it does because they keep doing it. If it didn’t, they’d stop. They’re very black and white about that stuff. Alright, so let’s keep these few things in mind when we’re working on this. Number one, “Don’t Yell At Your Dog To Be Quiet,” because it sounds like you’re barking and you know they like to be in packs!

Sarah: They have confirmation now.

Kathy: Right? It’s, oh my gosh. I hear this all the time, right in front of me in class, “Stop it! Be quiet. Cut it out. Cut it out!”  And the dogs, bark and louder to get over the person. It’s futile. Also, “Stay Consistent.” Everybody in your family has to do the same thing. So if you’re ignoring your dog when he barks, but your husband looks at him and slides him a piece of pizza crust, you never going to get it any better. It’s going to be bad. And, and you’ll be, you’ll be able to out the culprit pretty easily with stuff like that. Whoever the dog is looking at when they’re barking, that’s your weak link. And the last one is, “Don’t Make Eye Contact Or Interact With Your Dog While He’s Barking.” I like to say that when my dog barks, I become invisible and I walk away and he’s like, “Where the hell is she going?” But, it’s really the barking and that drives me out. Alright, so, let’s get to solutions. First one is “Remove The Reward.” And you and I, we both agree that when a dog barks, he’s getting some sort of reward, which we spoke about a little bit earlier. So let’s talk about the dog who barks and somebody walks past your house. Easy peasy, right?

Sarah: Yup.

Kathy: Block the access to the window. Close the shades, put up a gate. I have said to people, alright, so this is also storytime. Anytime we do these podcasts, it just jumps into a story. Of course.

Sarah: I was gonna say. Are you gonna tell the story about the woman who had the garbage bags up?

Kathy: Yes.

Sarah: This is so good!

Kathy: So I had a student with three little Maltese. They were triplets, meaning they were all from the same litter. Don’t ask me why she kept all three, but she did. And they lived, their house was facing a street that people turned into, like, it was the first house on the corner, and so at night when a car would turn the headlights would momentarily go through the front glass door and then carry on. And the dogs would lose their mind whenever that happened. So she would try to bust up, keep them away from it with crate, um, try to barricade them. Uh, she would, when she saw the lights, she would be, like, “Oh! Oh no, don’t bark, don’t bark,” and get up from her TV show. And she was watching some series that was annoying for her. She even tried putting them upstairs in the room with her and watching Netflix on her laptop. But for whatever reason they still could tell and it was just, it was crazy. The lengths that she was going to adapt her life to have this not happen.

Sarah: Instead of fixing it. It was futile.

Kathy: Yeah. And it was such a pattern. Did it happen during the day? No, it did not, cause there were no headlights. Oh, PS, this is probably important backstory. She taught them to chase a laser pointer!

Sarah: Oh my! Well that’s where it starts!

Kathy: Don’t do that! Especially with dogs who have quirks who like to chase little things like that. So, this was like the biggest laser pointer ever. Anyway, I went over there and I’m like, “Dude, the gates aren’t working. They don’t care. We’re just going to block their access.” So we got trash bags, black trash bags, and we duct taped them to the doorframe from the top all the way down to the bottom. It was beautiful. And all of a sudden there were no headlights and the behavior stopped. Now, that’s not the end solution, because she didn’t like the way that looked. So what we did was we would roll it up an inch every couple of weeks. And they’d see a little light and we got better and better and better. And pretty soon it was no big deal. What we also added into that was when the lights would come by, when we started rolling it up an inch, she had a handful of treats and when the dogs would see the light, she’d say “Headlights,” and throw a handful of treats, which was, I don’t know, I wouldn’t have chosen that word, but it is what it is. And so to this day if you say to the dog, “Headlights,” they look at the ground like, “Where’s the food?”

Sarah: Right.

Kathy: So, we reconditioned them to, when you do this something good happen. So, and now it’s a couple of years later and it’s done. So that was a really quick fix for her. Although, the dramatics beforehand were pretty intense. We talked about this, “Don’t Reinforce Barking With Attention.” So, if their demand barking don’t look, don’t touch, nada, nothing. And when he’s quiet, then you give them attention. But, Sarah, I find that people don’t leave enough of a bumper between the barking, the silence, and the reinforcer. Do you?

Sarah: No, because if you don’t leave enough time, or you’re not consistent, which we talked about earlier, then it’s not going to be fixed.

Kathy: Exactly, and to this point, when I have a new dog in the house, and I do right now, I have a puppy who’s five months old, and when I start meal prep and he’s bouncing around, it’s not barking, but he’s bouncing and spinning and all the other dogs are there too, I stop the process, put the ball on the counter and go sit down at the kitchen table and all the other dogs are like, “Crap, the new guy!”

Sarah: “The new guy!”

Kathy: “It’s gonna be hours before we eat!” And, so, what they know and what he’s learning is that that kind of behavior, it makes everything stopped. It doesn’t make it go faster. It makes it stop.

Sarah: Right! And each time you do that, so someone’s doing this at home. The first time can be five minutes, then the next, if you then go back and you start to make the bowl and they start doing the same thing, then the next time you go sit down, it’s 10 minutes.

Kathy: Right? I think that’s the key. The unexpected outcome, like, “Hey, I used to do this and I would get faster service, but now they closed the restaurant. That sucks.” And I think people need to keep in mind how long this behavior has been going on…

Sarah: Yup.

Kathy: …As a good expectation for how long it’s gonna take to fix it. If they’ve been barking five years. It’s not gonna take five years to fix it, but it’s gonna take a little bit of time. It’s the toothbrush thing, right? So if every day you go to your bathroom, the toothbrush is on the left. You reach for it, put toothpaste on, brush your teeth. If I take your toothbrush, move it to the right side of the sink, every morning, for awhile, you’re going to reach for the left. You’re going to say, “Dammit, it’s on the right!” Right? It’s, like, when you lose power to your house, how many times, you know, the power’s off and try to turn on the damn lights.

Sarah: Yup.

Kathy: So it’s a pattern behavior. It’s reflexive. They’re almost not even thinking of it. So be patient when you make changes. I don’t want to hear you say, “I did it for a week and it didn’t work. Kathy Santo, you suck.” Don’t say that! It takes a while. I know this stuff! I see it every day and it will work! And a lot of it depends on you. Let’s talk about keeping them occupied, for the boredom barkers.

Sarah: Yup. So some of the top things we suggest for students. Because also, so if they are barking from boredom, that’s what you’ve determined it to be, you now want to be proactive. You want them to not be bored. So then the bargaining isn’t happening. So, a lot of things we like to use our food dispensing puzzle toys, we love a good antler, stuffed Kongs, which are the, and these are all gonna provide stimulation and an activity for your dogs that they could focus on that instead of the barking.

Kathy: Right. And that Antler, I want to make a point. Sorry I left you hanging before I was taking a drink. I put the antler in warm, or hot, chicken broth for like 20 minutes. It’s sort of reconstitutes it, you can do straight warm water to. And then let it cool off and then dry it and give it to your dog and sometimes people get antlers and they’re, like, “Oh it was great initially and then my dog was, like, ‘I don’t care about it,’” but, you can do things to make them more interesting and you know, it’s chicken broth now, it’s beef brother later. You can even put them in the freezer for a bit, especially for those teething puppies. But those are things you’d give the dog before they’re barking. Can we just talk about the fact that sometimes dogs bark and people give them things to chew on?

Sarah: Oh my God. Yeah.

Kathy: So, that’s exactly what we’re talking about earlier.

Sarah: But, if your dog’s barking and then you give them something, they are learning, “When I bark, I get this!”

Kathy: Right! That’s like your kid yelling at you, “Mom, Mom, Mom, Mom, Mom,” and you give them 20 bucks and they’re like, “Oh, now I know how to get 20 bucks.” Yeah, we’re not doing that. Alright, let’s hop over to, “Make Sure Your Dog Is Getting Enough Mental And Physical Exercise.” So…

Sarah: Yep.

Kathy: You and I created the Canine Gym Program. Why don’t you speak to that about the physical exercise?

Sarah: Okay. So what we like to do with all of our dogs is not just the mental and it’s not just the physical. We like to combine both of it so that both parts of the dog are getting the stimulation, the exercise, everything that they need in order to truly tire them out. If you just take your dog for a long walk in the morning and then you put them back inside and you go to work, they’re not truly tired. Sure, that walk was great. They got to potty, they got to do some sniffs. But, unless you’re adding in the mental side of things, you’re working their obedience, you’re working their impulse control while you’re on that walk, they’re not going to be truly tired. And then when they get home and you leave for work they’re going to look for other things to do to entertain themselves. I.E. barking.

Kathy: Exactly. Now, I had a student whose puppy would bark when she put it in a crate at night, and I really felt bad because, she came to me with this idea and thought it was, like, genius. She was, like, “I have the solution!” I’m, like, “Okay, great. What is it?” She’s, like, “Every night before I put him in his crate, I go for a walk around the block four times and I get home and I put them in the crate and he’s out.” Now, major problem with this, although I paused a moment to see, to think about how I was going to deliver the bad news so that she didn’t cry or start, start drinking. Um, so, a couple of days ago I went to something called Cycle Bar and it’s like a cycle bike place. And the first day it kicked my butt, the second day kicked my butt, but not as much. By the third day I could do faster and I could turn the knob up to give more resistance to it.

Sarah: Right.

Kathy: And, so, the more I go to Cycle Bar, the more training I’m going to get. So, think about this with the dog. He’s, like, 12 weeks old, he gets four times around the block and he’s tired. What happens when is endurance increases? It’s going to be eight times around the block.

Sarah: Exactly!

Kathy: She’s going to be walking and jogging for hours before the dog goes to bed.

Sarah: By the time he’s a year old, we’re going to be doing marathons!

Kathy: Now, if that’s the goal, you go, girl! You’re going to hit it. But if it’s not considered doing two blocks and adding and training or some physical fitness where he’s getting his paws up or, or just like train him to do physical things and wear at his brain, his body at the same time. And then you’ll get the solution that you’re hoping for.

Sarah: And also what you teach in classes all the time, nose work games. Those are exhausting for a dog.

Kathy: Exactly. Yep. And, and people, I don’t think they think that, because there’s not a lot of motion. They associate exercise with exhaustion.

Sarah: Right.

Kathy: But, I’m telling you I could go to the gym and workout and come home and be like ready for the day, and I could sit in front of my computer and work on my book, or whatever, and be exhausted after a couple of hours, because it’s brainwork. Imagine though…ooh, great idea! What if at Cycle Bar I could have my laptop with me…

Sarah: I knew you were gonna say that.

Kathy: And I can be peddling!

Sarah: Thinking, “What can I do, and work?”

Kathy: Oh, my God. That would be amazing. All right, so let’s get to the last thing. The last thing is, and I’m sure nobody does it, is “Reward Your Dog When They’re Quiet.” Much like a baby being quiet, or a toddler when they’re playing, you don’t want to disturb it because you don’t want them to focus on you. But, I really feel strongly that if you walk by the crate, your dog is quiet, or he’s hanging out in the house, I would just throw a cookie and praise them, “Good. Quiet.” So that you’d get more of that.

Sarah: And that’s something that people never think about! They never think that they need to teach their dog those kinds of things like rewarding the quiet behavior, or, you know, praising them when they’re just hanging out and not reacting to whatever’s going on around them. And it’s so important.

Kathy: It is, it’s just, it’s everything, because people get really good at telling their dogs what they don’t want them to do, but they kind of suck at telling them good job because they’re just relieved and if they notice more of the good stuff, it’s like that Beyonce song, right? If you like it put a ring on it. If you like it, put a cookie in it, or put some praise on it. You’re going to get more of that. So, alright, this was awesome. Yay, for the first episode! We have been talking about doing this podcast forever and, finally, I’m glad that we finally got around to doing it. So, anyway, that’s it for this, our very first episode of Kathy Santo’s Dog Sense. Thank you so much for spending time with us and I hope you’ll join us again soon. If you have comments or show ideas, you can reach us through our website at As always, if you like what you hear, jump over to whatever subscription service you downloaded from and like rate, subscribe, tell a friend and share this episode somewhere to help spread the word so we can continue to create an awesome community of dog lovers and learners. Happy training everyone!